Inside the Deposition: A Mock Experience
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Imagine this: A peer-to-peer abuse incident has occurred at your Club. You were the staff member on duty and are being deposed.
Are you confident in your staff’s ability to answer the attorney’s questions about your training, policies & procedures, and supervision practices? The questions below were taken from a real deposition and were asked of a teenage staff member who was on duty during an incident.
Instructions:
Gather your staff and have them take turns being in the “hot seat.” Read the scenario italicized above. Ask them a variety of the questions below. You can choose a few questions from each section, you don’t need to ask all of the questions. Use this activity to determine if your staff is confident in answering these questions and identify the gaps to see where additional training is needed.
*Please note, details including dates, locations, and names have been redacted or changed for anonymity.
PERSONAL INFORMATION
• Please state your full name for the record.
• Please spell your first name for us.
• Do you have a middle name?
• What is it?
• And what is your date of birth?
• What is your address?
• And how long have you lived there? [now lives in different state than claim took place]
• And where did you live before that?
• What brought you to [current state]?
• Are you married?
• Have you ever been married?
• Do you have any children?
• Does anyone live with you here in [current state]?
• Do you have any siblings?
• How many and how old?
• What are their names?
• Have either of them worked for the Club [location witness previously worked]?
• Any other Clubs that they’ve worked for?
• Do your parents live in [city, state where claim occurred]?
• What are their names?
• Has your mother or father ever worked for the Club?
EDUCATION
•Where did you go to high school?
•Is that in [city, state where claim occurred]?
•And what year did you graduate?
•Any additional education after high school?
•Where did you go to college for the one semester?
•And was that straight out of high school?
• The first page is your employee application. Do you recognize that as your handwriting on the application you filled out?
• And it has the date of [date]. Does that sound right to you as the time you applied for a job at the Club?
• And when you filled out the application, it says at the top the Boys & Girls Clubs of [city, state]. Were you applying for a job at Boys & Girls Club of [city, state] or did you understand you were applying to work at X specific club location?
• What led you to apply for a job at the Club?
• And as I understand it, it sounds like you thought the Club was the best chance of getting a job in the [city, state] area. Is that right?
• Have you ever worked with children before?
• How old were you at the time?
• What job were you applying for?
• Did you understand that you were applying for a particular type of childcare like afterschool care? Day care?
• And did you know anyone at the Club?
• Wo did you know there?
• What did they do at the Club?
• And how did you know them?
• Did they know you were looking for a job?
• I’m trying to understand how it was that you understood or believed that the Club was going to be the best place for you to apply for a job, and did you have any
conversations with your friend before you applied.
• Did you believe the Club was one of the biggest organizations in the community?
• And had you before applying to work there, did you have experience at the Club?
• So, you had never been a member of that Club before you went to apply for a job?
• Do you recall how many people interviewed you?
• Do you recall if you were interviewed in person or over the phone?
• Do you remember what the interview entailed, what sorts of questions you were asked?
• We’ve been told that the Club Director was a person named Pat Brown. Does that name sound familiar to you?
• Do you remember Pat Brown?
• Do you remember if Pat Brown interviewed you before you were hired at the Club?
• Did they tell you during the interview process what sort of work you’d be doing?
• And what did they tell you?
• Did they tell you you’d be taking care of children?
• Do you recall if they asked you anything about your experience working with children?
• I understand it has been some time, but do you remember anything from the interview or interviews?
• According to the personnel file, your personnel file, it looks like you were hired on [date]. That’s on page stamped Club 00031. There’s a payroll change from
dated May 7th of 2020. Do you see that?
• Does that sound right to you that you were hired on [date]?
• It sounds like sitting here today, you don’t have a specific recollection of being hired three days after you applied; is that right?
• Tell us what your responsibilities as a Club employee were.
• I’m trying to distinguish between summer camp and after school care. Did you ever work with kids as part of after school care?
• Is it the first time that you had to provide childcare during summer camp?
• Who was your supervisor at the Club?
• How often were you working when you first started?
• And then once summer camp started, how often were you working?
• So, during the summer camp, you would work three to four days; is that right?
• So, any time you completed a training, there was a certificate you were given to show your supervisor that you completed the training?
• You mentioned online training and Power Points, Was there any in–person training?
• Did any of the training you received address child abuse?
• The training that you received on child abuse was that online training or in–person training, or Power Point training?
• Do you remember any of the training specifically speaking to child sex abuse?
• You mentioned some of the training. I think you said, was it about policies and procedures?
• Who gave that in–person training and refreshers on policies and procedures?
• You told us that Pat Brown was your supervisor, correct?
• And who was responsible for making sure that you and the other counselors during summer camp were following the policies and procedures, to your knowledge?
• Do you know who Pat Brown’s supervisor was?
•Do you see this is a document that is entitled Child Abuse Prevention Code of Conduct. Do you see that?
•Is that your signature at the bottom?
•Do you recall if anybody from the Club went over this document with you?
•Did someone go over it with you?
•Who went over it with you?
•And when they went over it with you, tell us what they did.
•Was that part of the training to go over the Child Abuse Prevention Code of Conduct?
•Did you understand from your training with Pat Brown in reviewing the Child Abuse Prevention Code of Conduct that you were not to be alone with a single child where you could not be observed by others?
•And did Pat Brown explain to you why that was the policy at the Club?
•Did Pat Brown explain to you why those situations would be uncomfortable, to use your word?
•Do you see Item No. 2, “Staff shall never leave a child unsupervised”?
•Did you understand that it wasn’t safe for the child to leave them unsupervised?
•What age children were you working with at the Club? What age range?
•And there’s — the second sentence says, “Staff will stand in the doorway while children are using the restroom.” Do you see that?
•Is that a policy you were trained on by Pat Brown?
•And then the last sentence says, “Always send children in pairs whenever possible with staff.” Do you see that?
•And what was your understanding as to why children, when sent to the restroom, should be accompanied by staff whenever possible?
•And that was for the safety of the children?
•And Item No. 4 on the Code of Conduct, “The staff should conduct or supervise private activities in pairs. Diapering, putting on bathing suits, taking showers, et
cetera.” Do you see that?
•What was your understanding of what this policy is requiring?
•So, I’m looking at the language at Item 4. “Staff should conduct supervised private activities in pairs, diapering, putting on bathing suits, taking showers, et cetera.” And I’m simply asking what is it that you understood this policy required?
•And not — and to make sure that the child isn’t taking too much time, or the children aren’t taking too much time?
•And that could be something like when they’re changing into or out of bathing suits for swimming; is that right?
•And then the other component you said was — I think you said, making sure everything was appropriate; is that right?
•And is that making sure that nothing inappropriate is happening in the bathrooms?
•Is it your understanding from this policy that there should always be staff in the restroom or the changing area whenever children are changing into or out of bathing suits?
•Let me ask you, from your experience working at the Club, were children sent into bathrooms in pairs to change into or out of their bathing suits?
•And when children were sent in pairs into the bathroom to do that, would staff accompany them to monitor the situation?
• Were they sent into the bathroom in pairs to change, just the two of them alone, without a counselor?
• So, the policy, then, as I understand it, is if children are in the bathroom changing, they should be — each of them in a stall alone — so each child gets their own stall to change; is that right?
• And as I understand the policy, there’s supposed to be a counselor who is either in the bathroom, not in the stall, but in the bathroom or at the door of the bathroom, with their foot in the door and open, monitoring the situation to make sure the kids are moving along the pace and not up to anything they aren’t supposed to be up to?
• It is dated [date]. Do you see that at the bottom?
• So, do you think this is the orientation you went through to get trained on how to care of children?
• The first item on her is Club mission. Do you remember what the mission of the Club is?
• There’s an item that says, “Incident accident report.” Do you see that?
• What do you remember about the policies and procedures around incident reports or accident reports?
• Did you understand that if anything happens to a child or you thought something happened to a child under your supervision, you were supposed to prepare an
incident report?
• And what would you — what were you supposed to do with the report if you prepared it?
• And do you recall whether you ever had to prepare incident reports while you worked at the Club?
• And when you did that, you turned those in to your supervisor, your supervisor, correct?
were in that camp? Just best you can tell us.
• And that’s across the entire camp?
• And were the children divided into groups in that camp?
• Do you remember what the age — the different age groups were?
• And what age group did you work with?
• And how many children were in your group?
• Can you give us just your best estimate of how many kids were in your group?
• And you had — you were working with a group that was in the five to eight–year–old range?
• Would you also work with the other children in the camp?
• And the group of five to eight–year–old kids, were you the only counselor working with that group, or were there other counselors with you?
• And they were assigned to that specific group as well?
• And would you always have two counselors for your group, or would there sometimes just be one of you?
• And what sorts of activities were the kids doing during the summer camp?
• So, would you, the counselors, decide what activities the kids would be doing?
•Would you sort of develop your own curriculum, if you will, for the kids?
• And between you and the other counselor, was one of you the lead counselor and the other the secondary, or were you equals?
• Had she worked at the summer camp before, to your knowledge?
• Do you know how many summers she had worked there before?
• But you knew that this wasn’t her first time at summer camp?
• Did your group of kids — did you have like a particular room that you were assigned to with them?
• If we’re walking through the front door, you’ve got the gymnasium to the left. You’re saying the classroom that you used for your children, the five to eight–year–olds, was Classroom 2; is that right?
•And as I understand it, the bathrooms that you’ve been talking about where the children would go are on the — you can’t see the doors from this angle, but they are facing the gymnasium, the doors to the bathrooms?
•And if you look at Plaintiff’s Exhibit 4, you can see that’s the — is that the door to the boy’s bathroom outside of the gymnasium?
•And is this the bathroom that — one of the bathrooms that kids would be sent to change into or out of their bathing suits for swimming?
•This is the only one. Were there girls in the camp?
•And would they be sent to this bathroom too or a different one?
•And so, at any given time, you may have two little boys in the boys’ bathroom and two little girls in the girls’ bathroom?
•And now, there were other children, both older groups and younger groups, in the camp; is that right?
•And did they have different bathrooms that they were assigned to change into and out of their bathing suits, or did all the children use the bathrooms that we’ve been talking about in Plaintiff’s Exhibit 3 and 4?
•And during this process, you would have two kids — let’s use this men’s bathroom. You would have two boys in the bathroom. Were they to be each — like in a separate stall changing?
•And would you or another counselor sort of walk them in and so you go into that stall, and you go into that stall, or would you just send them in the door?
•So as a counselor at this time, you’ve got children that you’ve got to watch that are out waiting to go — waiting their turn to go into the bathroom, right?
•And you’ve got children who are in the bathroom who are supposed to be changing?
•And then you’ve got children who are out of the bathroom who have already changed, and they’re supposed to be waiting for everybody else to get done before you all go back to the classroom?
•Was there — to your knowledge, was there any sort of buddy system — do you know what a buddy system is in camp?
•Was it your experience some kids would usually get in line together and be — go in and change together?
• Do you remember he was seven years old?
• What do you remember about him?
• All in all, a good kid?
• Do you remember any particular kids that John Doe Camper 1 was friends with at the camp?
• Do you remember John Doe Camper 2?
• What do you remember about him?
• Do you remember that John Doe Camper 2 was nine years old?
• All right. But you were working with kids that were supposed to be five to eight years old; is that right?
• Do you know why John Doe Camper 2 was in your group?
• Do you recall there being any behavioral issues with John Doe Camper 2?
STAFF RESPONSIBILITIES
• You’ve been handed what we’ve marked as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 5. Have you ever seen this document before?
• Is this something you were shown when you worked at the Club?
• Were you given a copy of this to take with you or just shown it?
• Do you recall whether you received any training on this document?
• If you look at the second page, do you see there’s a heading Staff Responsibilities?
• And then there’s — it says, “To the Camper,” and then there’s a list of four responsibilities to the camper. Do you see that?
• And then Item No. 4 is to provide a safe environment for all children, both physically and emotionally. Do you see that?
• Is that something you understood was one of the staff responsibilities at the summer camp at the Club?
• So, it’s important, as you understand it, for children to be grouped with kids that are developmentally in the same range?
• Right. There can be — if you had somebody who’s — if there’s, for instance, sort of a four–year gap in age, like even five to nine years old, you want to keep those separate because, developmentally, they’re in different places?
• Page 421, it’s a slide for restrooms and water breaks. Do you recall what you were trained about restroom and water breaks, what the policies and procedures were for the summer camp?
• Well, were kids allowed to go to the bathroom when you were a counselor?
• And would they be sent alone or in pairs or with a counselor?
• So, if a child was going to the bathroom, you would try to send them in pairs with a counselor; is that right?
• And they needed to have a counselor there to monitor them with respect to maintaining a distance to respect privacy, but nonetheless, monitoring the children?
• And was it the same — were water breaks the same or different from restrooms?
• Children would be sent to the water fountain with a counselor; is that right?
• And all that is for their safety?
• To make sure — we talked earlier about the importance of supervising children, especially when we’re talking the age that you were working with, five to eight–year–olds, kids need to be supervised, right?
TRAINING—SUPERVISION
• Go to 423. That page — that slide says — it’s bullet points; “Characteristics of children, common problems, how camp affects children and “nevers”.” Do you see
that?
• So other than your experience working with your siblings and cousins at home, this was your first time working at a job where you were paid to take care of kids; is that fair?
• And I wasn’t there for this PowerPoint. I see there’s a bullet point that says, “Nevers,” and am I right to understand that there was some training about things that should never be done or never be allowed at camps?
• And that’s all I can ask you is what you remember today, and it sounds like today, you don’t have any recollection of what the nevers might have been?
• Did you — do you know for sure that you ever saw this PowerPoint?
forms, and parent/staff communication form.” Do you see that?
• Do you recall that list of documents being things that you worked with as a camp counselor?
• And tell us, Child Behavior Report, what is that?
• Is that a report that you recall having to fill out from time to time?
• But sitting here today, you don’t have a specific recollection of a specific instance where you filled one out, but your expectation is that because you were working with kids over a period of months, you probably had to fill out a child behavior report; is that fair?
• And we talked earlier about incident report forms, which is the third bullet point?
• And you testified earlier that you expected that there may have been something that you may have had to do from time to time?
• And then lastly on here is “Parent/staff communication form.” What do you recall about that form?
• When you worked as a counselor at the summer camp, would you communicate with the parents?
• So, if the parents needed to know something about an incident or behavior of their kids, you report it to your supervisor and then they relay it to the parents?
TRAINING DOCUMENTATION
• If you look at the next page, it says, “Training,” and then there’s a number of bullet points.
• And we’ve talked about your training. You did some online that you would get a certificate for, right?
• And if we take a moment and look at Exhibit 1 — and for example, look at Page 126 and 127. Those appear to be training certificates for you; is that right?
• Did you ever transport kids for the Club?
• Do you recall this training?
• Is it fair to say that if there — what you just said, if there’s a certificate showing that you did the training, then you probably did the training at some point?
• And if there is not a certificate, then it’s fair to say that it’s training that you did not
do?
• But to be clear, sitting here today, you’ve been — you’ve repeatedly made it clear that there’s a lot you just don’t remember because it’s been so long ago?
• And I’m trying to figure out what training did you received, and I’m looking at your personnel file and I’m looking at the training certificate. Would you agree with me that that’s the best we have to go on as to what training you actually received and completed?
PEER–TO–PEER ABUSE PREVENTION TRAINING
• As you sit here today, though, you can’t testify under oath that you did receive that training, can you?
• Do you think the issue of child–on–child sexual abuse is important?
• Do you think you might remember it if you had been trained that child–on–child sexual abuse can occur between children as young as ages three and four?
• And sitting here today, as I understand your testimony, you don’t remember ever being told about that, the risk of child–on–child sexual abuse in ages as young as
three and four?
• Tell us what you were trained about where child–on–child sexual abuse was most likely to occur?
• What training did you receive from the Club about the impact of sexual abuse on children?
• Now, I want you to look at Page 00989, and you see its heading, “Behavior beyond curiosity”? And the third sentence reads, “Although you may find it difficult to
believe, children as young as three or four can sexually abuse other children.” Do you see that? Do you recall one way or the other, sitting here today, whether you
were trained on that?
UNDERSTANDING OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE
• Do you know anyone that’s been sexually abused?
• How many people do you know that have been sexually abused?
• Have you ever been sexually abused?
• Has anyone in your family been sexually abused?
• What do you know about the impact of sexual abuse on its victims?
• And how do you know that?
ABUSE IN BATHROOMS
• Now, when you were working as a counselor at the Club, did you understand that almost all sexual behavior between children occurs in bathrooms?
• And that’s why it was so important that when you sent boys into the bathroom in pairs, that you kept line of sight so that you could see that they were in their
individual stalls; isn’t that right?
• And you understood because of this training, that if you didn’t do that, a child could get hurt?
• In fact, that’s why it had, not just you and not just your co–counselor there monitoring, but you also had the site director monitoring as the children were
changing, right? Because it was so important to make sure they were safe and that they didn’t get sexually abused, right?
• So Your supervisor is there to look after the kids after they come out, because you can’t be watching those kids that have already changed, the kids who are waiting in line to change, and keeping an eye on the kids that are in the bathroom changing, right?
• Because you understand and she understands that it’s really important that you not be distracted from your job of keeping line of sight on the boys in the bathrooms?
LAWSUIT
• Do you understand that you’re here today testifying in a lawsuit that involves John Doe Camper 1 being sexually abused by John Doe Camper 2 during the summer of 2020?
• And do you understand that the sexual abuse occurred in the bathroom where the boys were supposed to be changing?
• So, did you understand that’s where John Doe Camper 1 says it happened?
• And so, if John Doe Camper 1 found himself in the bathroom changing at the same time as John Doe Camper 2, that’s because their counselor sent them in together?
• And sitting here today, do you recall one way or the other how many times John Doe Camper 1 and John Doe Camper 2 were sent into the bathroom at the same time?
• So, sitting here today, you can’t say that it didn’t happen on other occasions, right?
• If John Doe Camper 1 said it happened more than 15 times, you couldn’t disagree with him, could you?
CONTACT WITH POLICE
• Did the [city, state] police department contact you after the abuse was reported?
• Did you provide the police with any written statements?
• Did the police tell you the names of the children involved?
• Did the police tell you the names of the children involved?
• How was it that you were going to be able to speak to any of the parents involved if you didn’t know who they or the children were?
• Did they tell you that it involved sexual abuse of a child that was under your care at the Club?
• How many times have you had conversations with the police about a child being sexually abused?
• Were you devastated when you heard the news from the police about what happened?
• You wanted to apologize to the parents of the little boy who had been abused?
• Did you want to tell them that what happened to their son should have never happened?
STATEMENT TO POLICE
• You were given what was marked as Plaintiff’s Exhibit 12 to your deposition, and you testified that this is a statement that you handwrote yourself and provided to the [city, state] police department; is that correct?
• And did the police ask you to write this statement?
• John Doe Camper 1’s Parents asked you to write this statement for the police?
• So, you spoke to John Doe Camper 1’s Parents before you wrote this statement for the [city, state] police?
• You have text messages with the parents?
• And it sounds like you don’t have any problem giving us those text messages, right?
• Looking at Page 1, you were describing, to put in your words, an incident involving John Doe Camper 1 and John Doe Camper 2, right?
• And on Line 2, you say, “The kids were changing out of their swimming clothes back into their regular clothes so we could continue our daily activities.” Do you see that?
• And so, this is — we’ve talked about this process a lot during the deposition. The kids had gone swimming that day, correct?
• And swimming time was over, and you had the kids lined up to go into the bathroom to change out of their bathing suits and into their dry clothes?
• The next sentence that you wrote, “As they were changing two at time, John Doe Camper 1 and John Doe Camper 2 were taking the longest.” Do you see that?
• Now, am I to understand that John Doe Camper 1 and John Doe Camper 2 were in the bathroom at the same time when they were supposed to be changing?
• Do you remember how long they had been in the bathroom?
• The next sentence says, “I was told to check up on them to make sure they were okay, so I did.” Do you see that?
• So, your co– counselor told you to check on John Doe Camper 1 and John Doe Camper 2 because they had been in the bathroom too long?
• Now, your next sentence, you say, “When I walked in, I seen John Doe Camper 2 crawling back into his stall from John Doe Camper 1’s.”
• It wasn’t — you didn’t respond by saying, no, I’m watching them, I have line of sight. She said you need to go in, so you went into the bathroom?
• So, you couldn’t see the boys in the stall? You couldn’t see their feet from where you were; is that right?
• Did you have your foot in the door?
• And so, you’re standing there with your foot in the door. And we talked about this at length earlier, specifically, so you could have line of sight and see their feet, right?
• And now you’re telling me that, “I really couldn’t see their feet”; is that right?
• And so in order for you to see the boys and make sure that they were in the stalls where they were supposed to be and to make sure that they were safe, you had to
walk into the bathroom and look around the corner to see their feet; is that right?
• So, if you couldn’t see it, was there anybody else there, a counselor or staff member that had line of sight that was watching those boys and making sure they were safe?
• And when you — after — like you only went in to see what was going on after your co– counselor told you they’ve been in there too long, go check on them; is that right?
• And when you finally walked in to check on them, you see John Doe Camper 2 crawling out or crawling back into his stall from John Doe Camper 1’s stall?
QUESTIONING CAMPERS AFTER INCIDENT
• And then according to your statement, when they finally came out, you say, “I looked at their facial expressions. John Doe Camper 2 looked as if he was in trouble, and John Doe Camper 1 looked highly distraught.”
• Tell us what you mean about John Doe Camper 1 looking highly distraught?
• Yeah. So after having — spending time with John Doe Camper 2 and John Doe Camper 1 consecutively, obviously, just like the other kids, any time that he feels
like he will get in trouble for something, he either freezes up, goes in the corner, sits down and cries, or looks incredibly confused or distraught in that regard, so that’s a normal, consistent behavior from him.
• Is that how John Doe Camper 1 looked to you when he came out of the bathroom stall? Confused and distraught?
• And John Doe Camper 2 looked like he was in trouble?
• And then you felt it was important to ask them both what was going on, right?
• And when you first asked, neither one of them would say a word, right? That’s according to your statement. They both just stood there mute, silent?
• And then you say, “My second plan of action was to pull the children aside individually so I would be able to give them comfort and freedom to speak.”
• You knew — based on this interaction, you knew John Doe Camper 1 wasn’t comfortable, right? And you knew he was afraid to speak?
• And when he finally did speak, again, according to your statement, he told you that he was simply trying to change, and he wasn’t trying to be bothered?
• And after he said that you kept asking him. You said, “I asked him multiple times,” because something told you that he wasn’t telling you everything?
• And then you pulled John Doe Camper 2 aside?
• And you said, “I asked him the same question as John Doe Camper 1, and he told me that he was showing John Doe Camper 1 Pokémon cards,” right?
• And then you asked him why he would do that in the midst of another child changing, and he gave you no response?
• And then you told him — you told him you didn’t believe him, right?
• Because you knew he wasn’t really in there showing John Doe Camper 1 Pokémon cards, right?
• Would have filled out a form kind of like this, but instead of Behavioral Referral Form at the top, it would say Incident Report?
• And you gave that incident report form to your supervisor?
• Now, was your supervisor there when you were questioning the campers?
• Now, when you gave the incident report form to Your supervisor, did you talk to her about what you seen?
• You completed the incident report form. You put it on your supervisor’s desk?
• Did Your supervisor call you or come talk to you after she received the incident report form?
• Your co–counselor emphasized you needed to do an incident report?
• So, your co–counselor proofread the incident report. Now, all the while, when this is happening in real time, you’ve got your supervisor standing right there, right? She’s monitoring the kids who have already gone to the bathroom?
• And am I right that you didn’t speak to her then and there about what she had seen?
• And to be clear, as I understand your testimony, you never had any conversation with your supervisor about what you saw?
• And do you know what, if anything, your supervisor did after reviewing your incident report?
MANDATED REPORTER
• And then the next paragraph, “Officer asked witness if they knew what a mandated reporter was, and witness said no.” Do you see that?
• “And Officer explained that anyone who was in charge of children are generally mandated reporters and must report any wrongdoing or suspected wrongdoings with the children so the incident could be investigated. Witness then said, ‘I do remember them briefly going over something and mentioning mandated reporters, but they did not spend enough time on it for me to remember what they said. They should have spent more time on it to be understood.’” Did I read that correctly?
• And you said that they should have spent more time on it. You’re talking about the Club, correct? Your supervisor?
• And you should have been provided better training on mandated reporting; is that right?
• Do you have any idea of why the Club hasn’t found or given us the incident report that you prepared?